In a culture with great leadership, people perform best because they feel seen and valued. In this episode, Adam Markel sits down with Meredith Bell, the co-founder and president of Grow Strong Leaders and host of the Grow Strong Leaders Podcast. Meredith shares insights on what truly drives effective leadership: humility, genuine connection, and trust. With over three decades of experience guiding leaders, Meredith explains how to create workplaces where employees feel valued and engaged, why honest feedback is essential, and how to foster a culture of open communication. Join us as we uncover the transformative power of leaders who prioritize relationships over results.
Show Notes:
- 07:07 – Qualities Of A Great Leader
- 17:04 – Soft Skills Are Power Skills
- 28:46 – Communication In The Workplace
- 44:41 – Developing Culture
- 47:35 – Meredith’s Favorite Business Books
Books:
Connect with Your Team: Mastering the Top 10 Communication Skills
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The Key Qualities Of A Great Leader With Meredith Bell
Welcome back to another episode of the show. I have a lovely, wonderful woman. I was on her show some months ago. We met through a mutual friend. She’s amazing. Her name is Meredith Bell. She is the Cofounder and President of Grow Strong Leaders. Her company publishes software tools and books that help people build strong relationships at work and at home. Meredith is the author of three books herself and the host of the Grow Strong Leaders podcast. This is going to be an exciting conversation. I know you’re going to love it.
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Meredith, I know I’ve been looking forward to this conversation for a while. We became fast friends a few months ago. It was fun for me to introduce you. I was looking forward to that as well. I ask this question pretty much universally. Nobody ever really seems prepared for it. I love that. Our community loves that as well. My question to you is what’s one thing that is not part of your standard intro or bio that you would love for people to know about you? What is something that’s not a part of that that you’d like people to know?
A couple of thoughts came to mind. I’ll share them both if that’s okay. One is that my husband and I have been avid bird watchers for more than twenty years. We love getting out with nature and observing these wonderful little creatures. It has been great practice for me learning how to not just identify them visually. I’m not as much of an auditory learner so I’ve concentrated on learning how to listen for them. You hear them more than you see them oftentimes.
It’s been a wonderful skill to pay attention to and be able to identify some of these feathered friends. That’s thing one. Thing two is really fun. I went to high school for two years with Mark Hamill who was the Luke Skywalker character in Star Wars. Mark always wanted to be an actor. When he started appearing on TV shows and then with Star Wars, I was ecstatic for him. He was a great guy.
That’s so interesting. I’m thinking about two things. One is that we put out a hummingbird feeder, which I purchased some time ago, and then I let it sit until I finally got sick of looking at it. In that instant, I’m like, “Where else in your life does this happen where you got something on your mind, and then you don’t fully execute it? I don’t like the way that feels at all.”
That’s all it took. It was an instant catalyst for me to get up and put this thing together, which was no big deal, and then put together the solution. I was mixing these nutrients that they provide for the birds with a little warm water. It turns it into this sugary stuff that they love. It’s not sugar, so we’re clear. That was super fun. We haven’t seen any hummingbirds yet.
You’ve had them for about a month.
I shouldn’t be impatient with the birds since I had the thing forever and then didn’t do anything about it. It’ll practice some zen patience here. We went to one of these little restaurants that does a movie and a dinner thing, which is fun. It was a little tiny little restaurant on this island that we spent some time in New England. It was The Empire Strikes Back. I got to see Mark Hamill, a young vibrant version of himself. You know him from high school. Is that the deal? Is that what you said?
Yeah. He went to Annandale High School. His father was in the Military and was transferred to Japan. We stayed in touch for a while after he moved to Japan, and then we lost touch. I’ve loved seeing what a wonderful human being he is too, not just a great actor.
He’s been in the news. I didn’t catch why that was, but I did see him in a bearded version in something going on.
He was a guest at the White House.
Is that what it was?
Yeah.
That’s very cool. Good for him. Good for Mark. Y ou need a level of confidence to succeed in life. We all get that. Whether it’s in sports or business, you have to have a little bit of swagger and all that kind of thing. You know the difference between that person who can comport themselves with confidence and somebody who’s obnoxious. When you hear somebody that has that humility or is a good person and they succeed, it makes you feel that much better about their success. I don’t know if you feel that way about Mark, knowing the origin story there.
He was always involved in all the theatrical productions in high school. He was in one role or another with them. I remember before he moved, we went to see a movie together. I even remember it was How to Succeed in Business Without Really Trying. It’s an ancient thing. Coming out, he was so pumped about pursuing acting as a career. It has been special to see not only the success he’s had, but also the wonderful humanness in his approach to life, his appreciation of his family and people in general, and his values. It has been neat to see over the years.
I’m always terribly curious about these initial questions that I don’t plan for because there’s no way for me to know the answer to the question of what’s something we want people to know about you. Where it dovetails into what this show is about and then not being too attached, allowing for things to unfold, and, as we said before we hit record, following the magic breadcrumbs or what have you.
I want to ask you this as a way to segue from what you shared with us. In your role as somebody who has coached leaders, has worked with leaders, and has helped leaders to assess themselves as well as assess their teams, etc., the qualities that we’re talking about in someone like Mark Hamill, where does that play in? How does that play into how you see leadership or what you’ve divined after so many years of working in this space an effective leader or a great leader perhaps?
Qualities Of A Great Leader
There are so many components there. One of the ones that I see in Mark that I know is so important in leadership, in general, is humility. To me, humility is not, in any way, putting yourself down. It’s recognizing your own strengths and your abilities and giving yourself full credit but not needing to have the center stage to have everybody looking at you. It’s about the greater good and looking at, “How can I be of service to others?” That ties in with a core element of effective leaders, that willingness to say, “I don’t know,” or, “I need your help,” and not feel like they have to always be right or always have the answers. It’s that continuous learning. They’re always on a path of seeking and growing.
Our company is Grow Strong Leaders. That whole emphasis of a willingness to keep an open mind and learn is so essential. The ability to create trust is a key part of that too. It is having honesty and integrity. People know they can count on you and your word. They will go to the mat for you when they know you have their back as well. Too often, that gets overlooked.
The reality as I think really deeply, and I have about this for leaders, is people have to know you care about them as a human being. You invest the time to get to know them and to be able to connect in a meaningful way. Too many leaders underestimate the power of that because they’re so task-oriented and results-oriented. They sometimes lose sight of the fact that these are human beings. Each person matters and wants to know they matter. What am I doing to create that sense that each one of the players in my company is important to its success?
It’s not a recipe thing. Yet, people want to know how you cultivate. The truth of that proposition is that people do better and people will perform better when they know that others have their backs or when they know that there are people that genuinely care about them who happen to also be their managers, their supervisors, or the people that are mentoring them. There’s no one way to do it. Have you seen in your works with organizations or with leaders something that strikes you either as a story, an anecdote, or some example of what that looks like in real life?
Yeah. We produce a 360 feedback tool. We’ve been in that business for 30 years, so we have a number of different stories. One of my favorites was a leader who had a consultant work with him to do this feedback. He didn’t know what to expect. What was the trigger for him to seek input was the fact that there was high absenteeism and low morale and he could sense he wasn’t getting the most from people. He was trying to identify what was the cause.
When the results came back, it turned out it was him. That was the reason. He was a micromanager. He was harsh from the perspective of the people that worked for him. This was in a hotel situation. We’re talking about someone managing a property with lots of employees. This consultant was very skilled at working with him to identify and help him see this was the case. It was such a wake-up call for him because his core values were that people mattered and that they were important. When he saw this huge disconnect between how he thought he was and how he was perceived, he was really motivated to make a change.
That’s a key piece. It is that willingness to, first of all, ask for feedback and then to look at it with an open mind and not try to shift the blame, like, “What’s wrong with them?” or, “It’s other things besides me.” He really looked hard at himself and started making changes. He started meeting with people, finding out what they wanted, and opening up more.
Over a period of months of working with this consultant who was also a coach to help him make progress and support him along the way, when she came back into the building, she said she could sense the difference in the atmosphere there. People were smiling. They were happier. When she went in to meet with him after some time had gone by, he was thanking her profusely because it not only changed the culture because he became more open, more honest, and more vulnerable, but he also carried that over at home. His family life improved.
That’s the interesting thing. When we start modifying our behavior in one scenario, because we are whole people, it also can have an impact on other areas of our life. That whole organization underwent a major shift and transformation due to this one leader, the CEO, recognizing that changes need to be made. It took time, but it was real and it was so positive. This thing is possible in all kinds of organizations, but it takes that emotional maturity and willingness to seek self-awareness to grow and learn for that kind of transformation to happen.
Great Leader: When we start modifying our behavior in one scenario because we are whole people, it also can have an impact in other areas of our life.
The word that you said earlier which really resonated with me was humility. In a situation where you get feedback like that where your self-image is what’s on the line, because clearly if the change has to start with you, there’s an element of who you are being not adequate and not sufficient, I would think it hits you right in the gut. I’ve been hit in the gut like that, so I know what that feels like too.
If there are areas in the company, in the team, or in any of the situations that people are involved in where something’s not optimal or where there’s a lot of room for improvement, you can sense it. You can feel it. It’s like, “What’s my part in that? What is my role in why things are the way they are?” You have to have a level of humility, which is the word you used earlier. The antithesis of arrogance is humility. Humility is not weakness. It’s not being a doormat, being passive, or somehow not being able to rally the troops or get things done, is it?
No. I really see it as a strength because you recognize who you are, your values, and what you have to offer. It isn’t minimizing any of that. It’s recognizing, “I have more to learn. I don’t have all the answers. I can ask for help.” In this case, talking about feedback, it is asking for input. You don’t have to go through a formal 360 process to be able to go to people who are important to your work.
Tell them, “I am committed to my own growth and learning. What’s one thing I could do better or differently that would make your work more successful or make our relationship better?” You’re asking for one thing and you’re asking the person to think ahead into the future, not dig back into the past of what you did wrong. Ask them, “What would you like to see me do differently or better going forward so your experience working with me would be more positive?”
Soft Skills Are Power Skills
You also said in that feedback for that particular CEO that they were considered to be harsh. I’ve known a number of people who run sales teams and are in other senior-level leadership roles, including CEOs. Rarely or on occasion have I heard that a CEO was harsh mostly. The work we’ve done more in our company WorkWell has been with larger companies. People that are harsh sabotage their careers in ways they probably can’t anticipate.
I have not seen too many CEOs. If they were harsh in a former iteration of themselves or in some other role, that harshness doesn’t translate so much, at least not outwardly or not publicly in their role as a CEO. At other senior leadership roles, in particular in sales, I’ve heard that quite frequently. I don’t know if that’s also been your experience.
My question to you is a sense of those that are out there who either are leading teams in sales, marketing, or some of those areas where the metrics are so important. All the numbers in business matter, but we know that a lot of times, the inflection point comes down to sales and marketing. Those people have a tremendous amount of pressure on them all the time to perform and all that kind of thing.
Sometimes, rallying the troops is a bit like being on a battlefield. It’s not kind. It’s not gentle. Often, it’s quite harsh. I’m curious. In working with the sales arms of organizations or with sales leaders in particular, do you think that that’s been a tougher nut to crack? What insight perhaps have you learned about that? Is that a quality that you need to be able to be harsh?
Yeah. We haven’t worked as much directly with the sales teams, but if we think there’s a certain percentage of people in these leadership roles that somehow get the idea, that’s the appropriate way to motivate people. In fact, it’s the opposite. We’ve seen this with people in parenting roles as well as in leadership roles. Taking that, “Push them. Don’t trust them and assume the worst. They need to be closely monitored and tracked,” we don’t appreciate that as adults. Kids don’t appreciate it either. We respond better when we sense that someone believes in our capabilities and that they’re there for us.
It doesn’t mean being soft. In fact, I hate the word soft skills. To me, they’re power skills when you understand basic human motivation. We respond so much better to the carrot than the stick, if you want to put it that way, when we are acknowledged for what we do and not constantly reminded of our shortcomings or threatened. We tend to constrict or contract when punishment is being held over our heads versus freedom to use our own creativity and our own abilities. A key aspect of that is for leaders to not make assumptions and instead to be curious and ask questions. Instead of assuming the worst, it is giving the benefit of the doubt and assuming the best of someone.
If someone is looking like they’re going to fall short on their sales goal or some other metric that we’re looking at that says, “There’s a big gap here between where we want them to be and where they are,” it is sitting down and talking to the person to find out, “What’s going on with you right now?” They may have some personal situation that they haven’t opened up about that is really demanding their time and energy. Learning what that is and having them feel safe enough to talk about that can be huge. There may be something personal. There may be some self-doubt that they have or some past failures they’ve experienced where they are concerned about opening up. Find out and ask questions to learn where this person is and then listen.
Leaders are under so much time pressure, the constraints of having to get so much done in so little time. They’re like, “I don’t have time for these kinds of conversations to find out what’s going on with people.” I’m here to say that if you don’t take time for those kinds of conversations, it’s going to hurt you in the long run. We’re not saying be a counselor or take extended periods of time, but if you’ll invest some amount of time learning what’s important to the people and what’s going on with the folks on your team, it pays so many dividends back down the road from them feeling like somebody is on their side.
We like to counsel people to stop asking the question, “How are you doing?” It’s a good question, but rarely do people say much of anything except, “Fine. Good,” or whatever they might say. Where I grew up, we didn’t even answer the question. We asked the question in return. You’d say, “How are you doing?” and somebody would say, “How are you doing?” That was it. It’s a little ping pong. On some level, it’s intended to be superficial. It’s almost like a greeting. It’s like, “Hi,” and, “How are you doing?” with no expectation you’re going to get an actual real answer from people.
To me, it’s not setting yourself up for success if what you are looking to do is create that connection. As a result of there being a genuine connection, something authentic, there could be safety. You could get psychological safety. You could develop trust. You could develop something deeper and more meaningful that impacts how a person feels at work.
Instead of, “How are you doing?” it could be, for example, “What are you doing?” It’s that more curious exploration of, “What are you doing on your weekend?” Somebody could look you in the eye and go, “Considering the fact that I get Teams messages,” or, “I get Slacked,” or, “I get texted,” or, “I get emails throughout my weekend, I’m not sure what weekend you’re referring to. I don’t really have a weekend,” or whatever they might say. They might not be that quick to go there. It’s learning from somebody what they’re doing. What are they doing with their family? What are they doing in their free time potentially as a volunteer if that’s on their heart that they want to give back?
In our surveys, we found that a lot of people feel good about the work that they’re doing, which is not so much of a surprise. Almost in the mid 80% range, so 85% or 86% of the folks that we’ve surveyed, which is upwards of nearly 10,000 business leaders, indicate they’re in a livelihood that’s in alignment with their core values and beliefs, which we would say is the right thing they should be doing. Yet, the very next question in the survey indicates that there’s a gap between what they say is important and how they allocate their time. That delta between what they want to be doing and what they’re doing is a big deal. There are a lot of feelings that get triggered by that, like feeling unfulfilled, like you’re not making enough of a difference, and all that kind of stuff.
Getting more granular as you’re saying and exploring what they’re up to is key. I get it. You said, “You don’t have to be a counselor. You don’t have to be somebody who’s professionally trained to ask those questions. What you do have to do is care. When it comes to emotional intelligence or emotional acumen, it’s probably an area you have to look in the mirror if you don’t feel like you have the time to care to ask somebody about what’s happening in their life. Do you agree with that statement?
Yes. Even things like, “What’s most important to you in your work? What activities are you involved with that bring you the greatest sense of satisfaction?” It could be some things like that. If we learn what the strengths are of each person on our team, then we can better allocate assignments that are going to tap into the strengths of the people on our team. When people get to work in their zone of genius, it makes a huge difference in their motivation.
If we learn what the strengths are of each person on our team, then we can better allocate assignments that are going to really tap into their zones of genius. Share on XAnother key aspect of leadership is speaking possibility into others and helping them to truly tap into their own greatness and see things in themselves that they haven’t seen before. To me, that’s a truly remarkable leader when it requires getting out of their own selves and focusing on others to see, “What’s the spark I can ignite in this person that would cause them to love coming to work every day?”
When you think about it, the data shows such a tiny percentage of people are engaged in their work. As a leader, I can find out what it is that causes each person in my sphere to get motivated and excited about their work. The energy that everybody’s going to be bringing to the task at hand is going to help us achieve it so much faster, have more fun, and enjoy it.
That’s what’s going to also help with retention because people aren’t going to leave a place where they feel appreciated and valued and they feel they’re making a contribution to something greater than themselves. All of those elements are important for leaders to consider when they think about, “How do I need to interact with this person in a way that’s going to benefit them, me, and the business?”
Communication In The Workplace
I found myself really curious because you said earlier your business has been around for almost three decades or maybe even a little longer than that. What have you gotten the most joy out of? What has given you the most personal satisfaction in the work you’ve done and in the work you’re doing?
I’ve worked with my two business partners for 32 years. We have been on the same mission of helping leaders become more effective so that they can have a positive impact on everybody around them. We have seen too many times where there’s unnecessary pain or drama created in the workplace because people don’t know how to communicate with each other. Our primary focus is this whole area of communication skills and how to relate to one another so that it’s a positive experience.
We see there’s continual work to be done. I’ve seen the difference it makes when people get information, whether it’s from a 360 feedback process or from going through some of our materials like our books and our online programs that help them understand, “Here’s what it looks like to receive feedback graciously, to listen well, to give positive feedback so that people feel appreciated, and to give constructive feedback in a way that it feels supportive.”
All these elevations of these important communication skills and knowing what a difference they make for people in the workplace and their personal lives as well keeps me charged up. Most of the time, honestly, they don’t know any better. Our schools don’t have any kind of training in this area for people as they’re going through our formal educational system on one of the most important things that they need to have as a life skill. That’s the ability to communicate well.
What are you seeing now versus potentially before the pandemic? I don’t know if there’s a distinction between pre and post-pandemic. What are you seeing in the air of communication as being the biggest challenge? Are you spotting anything in particular?
When COVID hit and everybody had to go remote, you didn’t have those in-person meetings. You had to rely on Zoom. There were a lot of things going on in the background that you couldn’t know were potential distractions. It is blocking out time to really check in on how someone is doing and what’s going on with them.
We’re in a different place post-COVID than we were in the early days, but still, we’ve got that mixture of in-person, remote, and, in some cases, hybrid to see and be able to check on how people are doing if we’re not with them in person to have some of these small group conversations. How can we create those kinds of interactions that still feel like we’re together and build that cohesiveness remotely? That was one of the biggest challenges that, in some cases, have been very successfully dealt with.
Cohesiveness, what a good word to describe what is the goal or what feels like where you want to be. What I’ve been seeing, and you probably have seen some of this too, is people don’t respond. I don’t even know what the right word is because I’m not sure if it’s truly intentional, by design, or whether it’s passive-aggressive or something strictly related to how they manage time.
We see this in organizations all the time from the highest levels of leadership straight down where people are slow to respond to things and there’s a different feeling in that communication. It does come sometimes from the way that that person will communicate when they’re either face to face in a virtual sense over Teams, over Zoom, or something like that or they’re in person and in a physical proximity to some other person, which is an interesting dynamic.
Before the pandemic, primarily, that was it. We were communicating a lot in person. There wasn’t such a distinction and even a sharp distinction between the form, the style, the tenor, or the tone of a communication that was made face-to-face versus a communication that was made through email or text. What we see is there is a distinct difference between those two forms of communication in the tone. Apart from that, there is this period where emails and text messages will go unanswered for a period of time, which is strikingly inefficient and not a great sign of where our human connection is in and outside of the workplace, not just exclusively in the workplace.
One of the key things that’s important to do is recognize when we need to establish agreements about how we’re going to behave with each other. If you have someone who’s been ghosting you or is slow to respond, have a one-on-one conversation. If this is something that’s happening with the team as a whole, either way, there needs to be a conversation around, “How are we going to interact with each other? How are we going to agree to respond in terms of a timeframe that’s reasonable and fair to get back?”
Great Leader: One of the key things that’s important to do is recognize when we need to establish agreements about how we’re going to behave with each other.
Too often, we grumble to someone else about an issue we have with the specific person not getting back to us or ghosting us. Why are we not willing to have the conversation with that person and say, “I’m feeling frustrated, disappointed,” or whatever is going on with you, and then, “I would like to get this addressed.”
I like the term agreement because too often, where our disappointment or frustration comes in is when we have an expectation for someone but it hasn’t been verbalized. It’s in our own minds. We’re like, “I expect you to get back to me within 24 hours, 12 hours, or whatever it is but I’ve never told you that. I’m judging you based on criteria that you don’t even know about.”
The clarity of communication is so important. If I’m feeling agitated or frustrated with someone, I need to look within and say, “Where have I not been clear on what I would like to have in this situation?” Have a conversation with them. This is where humility comes in. It is the willingness to say, “I apologize if I haven’t been clear with you. Here’s what I would like to have,” in whatever the scenario might be.
It’s then like, “How does that land with you? Are you willing to commit to whatever it is I’m looking for in terms of behavior so we can have a conversation?” If we don’t have a commitment from the other person, then we still don’t have an agreement on how we’re going to be with each other. That is where the missing pieces are so often. We’ve never been clear in our communication about what each person wants and needs.
It’s interesting too because many times, we expect others to be mind readers. We expect them to know or we’ve made some assumptions about what they should know in terms of what clear communication would look like or what even timely communication might look like. It’s coming back to humility or coming back to that sense of, “I don’t need to necessarily be right here. I don’t have to make somebody else wrong either in the situation. Rather, this is not working. It’s not working as well as it could. Therefore, let’s reset.”
Potentially, there’s an opportunity for a conversation, and you guys refer to it as agreement frames, where you simply say to somebody, “Here’s what I’d love for us to be able to create as an agreement going forward so that we could have a more effective working everything. Relationship, of course, but we’d be able to be that much more efficient with one another if we go, “What’s a reasonable timeframe to expect a response or to have a response be what we can anticipate? Is it 72 hours? What is it? Is it when I feel like it? Is it when all the rest of my most urgent things are taken care of that I’ll get around to this at some point? What’s the reality here?”
That could lead to some very deep conversation or some pretty transparent conversation about lots of things going on, like what people are each individually dealing with that maybe the other person’s not even aware of, etc. It could be that some manager or some supervisor is saying, “Don’t deal with that. I’ve got something for you that has to take all of your focus and attention. Everything else has to be pushed to the side until that happens.” There could be lots of reasons.
Ultimately, even in situations like that where there’s an expectation that’s born out of clear communication and an agreement, you can always de-commit and say, “I know I’m supposed to respond to that email you sent me two days ago,” or whatever it might be, “but I can tell you that given what’s going on in my personal world, I’m not going to get back to you for a week,” or, “I’ll let you know when I’m going to get back to you. It’s not going to be within this period that we’ve agreed to.” That is so simple. When we’re working with organizations and we see the signs of those kinds of things, we know that that’s eroding. It’s like termites eating away at the foundation.
The clean thing that is so easily done is simply to reply and say whatever you have to say. We’ve told people, “Write back, “Received. I’ve got it. I’ll get back to you. Thanks so much.” One step further in clear communication is, “I’ll get back to you Friday,” as opposed to leaving that situation unattended in any event. We could spend days talking about communications. Of everything that I’ve noticed within organizations, communications, to me, is at the top of the list of things that require improvement in some of the biggest multi-billion dollar publicly traded companies down to much smaller concerns. I’m not sure if that’s been your experience as well.
It is the number one thing. When you look at the reasons people give for leaving an organization, it’s typically a bad boss. A lot of that comes down to how they do or do not communicate or how well they do or do not communicate. What gets in our way a lot of times is our own ego. We take things personally like, “I haven’t heard from this person in three days. They didn’t reply.” We take it as an insult to ourselves instead of being like, “I wonder what’s going on with them,” or being curious and not taking offense to things. As soon as we start taking things personally and getting our ego in the way, it sets up a conflict or a confrontation that doesn’t even have to exist.
What gets in our way a lot of times is our own ego. Share on XWe can apply this in sales too. When somebody has reached out to a prospect and they haven’t heard back, and then they have reached out again and they haven’t heard back, they assume, “They don’t want to do business with us,” or whatever. We don’t know that. All we know is we haven’t had a response yet. We don’t know why.
That’s true in the workplace as well. When someone’s behavior is different from what we had hoped it would be or expected it to be, then let’s think of ourselves as exploring what’s behind that and not say, “It’s about me,” and making these judgments that don’t serve anyone because it sets us on edge. It elicits these negative feelings towards that person instead of being gracious and open and giving them the benefit of the doubt.
It makes such a difference because people can sense how we come across when we’re talking to them. If there’s an edge in our voice, a tone, or whatever it is that might convey judgment or criticism, we bring that with us. Instead, we could replace it with a more generous attitude about another person. They would feel that too.
I love that. The use of generosity and being generous in that context is beautiful. There are a couple of questions left here. I want to ask you about culture, this amorphous concept that is always important. People know it when they see it or know it when they feel it. I’m curious how you feel about what’s important in developing culture. Does it happen by some happenstance or magic? Is it something more intentional?
Developing Culture
It’s very intentional. Ideally, it starts at the top where the senior leaders model all the things we’ve been talking about, humility, openness, enthusiasm for the vision of the organization, integrity, and honesty. All of that sets the tone for the entire organization. It is possible for a team leader within his or her own team to create that same kind of microcosm if it isn’t at the very top leadership. For a real positive culture to be sent throughout an organization, it starts at the top.
You’ve been a guest on my podcast. When I interview CEOs who have a genuine love for their people and care about their people, when I talk to anybody else in their organization, they are so positive about not just that leader but about working in that environment. It trickles down through everyone when the top leadership is able to communicate, “We care about you. We’re in this for you. We’re interested in your ideas and opinions. We’re willing to make changes based on your input.”
All of that contributes to creating a culture where people feel safe and they feel they can be open and honest. That’s how you get new ideas. If you are more of the autocratic leader who’s like, “Don’t question how we do things around here. These are the rules. You follow them or you’re gone,” that’s very constricting. People are not going to be able to thrive and want to contribute their best.
To me, a positive culture is one where people are smiling, they’re intensely working, they’re giving their best, they’re producing great results, and they feel enjoyment and satisfaction in their work because they feel valued. That, to me, is a common thread in a positive culture. People feel valued. That has a ripple effect on the customers because when people feel valued and they’re happy, they’re going to convey that to the people who do business with them. If you hear a negative tone in someone when you are calling for service, that gives you an indication of what the culture is like because it has a ripple effect at all levels and with people everywhere who have contact with that company.
In a positive culture, people feel valued and that has a ripple effect on the customers. Share on XFavorite Books
Last question. We’re both very much lovers of books and lifelong learners. Do you have a favorite business book, something that you’ve read? Maybe it’s a book about leadership. Maybe it’s something that’s outside of that environment, etc.
Your book was one that I love, Change Proof. That’s been one of the ones that I’ve read. I loved that.
Thank you.
Any of Steve Chandler’s books have been very inspiring to me. I’ve probably read twenty of his books. He’s often known as the Godfather of Coaching. He has worked with a lot of coaches. He has trained a lot of coaches. Even though I am not a professional coach and I do informal coaching with people, everything he writes about is relevant to everyone.
He’s got a book that’s a compilation called The Very Best of Steve Chandler. There are so many things that he writes about that I will go back to pick up one of his books when I want to reignite some of the ideas, like owner versus victim. It is, “Do I see things happening to me or do I take personal responsibility and say, “I am the one that can make this happen.” Any of his books, I highly recommend.
I’ve not read one of Steve Chandler’s books, so I’m excited to be able to pick one up. What I’ll do is as soon as this show is over, I’ll get on and order one up.
Pick the one that’s called The Very Best of Steve Chandler because that brings in multiple chapters of some of his top-selling books. What you’ll love about him is you can pick up any chapter, read it, and get something from it because they’re short. It’s so conversational. Every one of them is packed with wisdom that you get a nugget with anything that you read from him.
The Very Best of Steve Chandler
That’s cool. I’m looking it up. For me, the answer for folks who are curious about this, the latest book that I love is The 4 Disciplines of Execution. It’s by three authors, Chris McChesney, Sean Covey, and Jim Huling. 4DX is a pretty interesting principle. Our team is working through some 4DX work and loving it and enjoying it.
It’s a book about how you break free of the whirlwind and how you get focused on important things in your business. It could be used in other contexts as well without the usual excuse that there are so many more urgent things. There are always so many urgent things that we could call the whirlwind, which are the daily things, the to-dos, etc. That book has made a big imprint on me. The book I had before that was called Stolen Focus. That’s got some great stuff in it. This is related but more about how it is that we’re interacting in the world. You agreed. What did you love about Stolen Focus?
Every chapter was like an a-ha. I highly recommend that book too. It’s this whole idea of how distracted we are and the process the author went through to withdraw from all the various electronic devices and the withdrawal he experienced but then the discoveries he was able to make by slowing down. In a rush and constantly being inundated with information, we don’t often realize the impact that’s having on our ability to not just focus on something but stay focused and give it our full attention. It was a real eye-opener for me, looking at my own behavior and how to become more effective, focused, and disciplined in a single activity for an extended period of time.
It’s by Johann Hari. It’s a great book. There are a lot of valuable things in it too. First of all, I don’t know where the time went, but I’ve so enjoyed speaking with you and getting to talk more about the things we both love. I knew I would. If you’ve got questions for Meredith, you can go to AdamMarkel.com/Podcast. Leave a question there or a comment for Meredith and me. We would love to get your thoughts as always.
If this is an episode that you’ve enjoyed and there are insights here that you feel like you could share with friends, family members, and colleagues, feel free to do so. Thank you for doing so because when you do that, it helps the algorithm to get this content out to more people. That’s something that’s a benefit to us, but it’s a benefit beyond us as well. Thank you for your time in doing that as well. Meredith, thank you again for your time and for everything that you shared. It’s been an absolute pleasure.
Thank you. I enjoyed our conversation too.
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I loved that conversation. I hope you did as well. Meredith Bell is super wise and very calm. You feel calm in her presence. The words that she chooses, she chooses them carefully. They’re right there. They’re not far. She doesn’t have to search too far to find them. That’s because she’s had three decades in this arena of coaching strong leaders, effective leaders, compassionate leaders, empathetic leaders, and leaders who do not just have a sense of humility but embody humility, which is something that she talked about.
They are the kind of leaders that create psychological safety in their environments. They exhibit a high degree of emotional intelligence or emotional acumen. These are the ones that are able to lead great organizations. They’re able to lead teams that can do amazing things, even miraculous things, in the marketplace and outside of that space as well. I love that.
When you meet people like Meredith who are helping other people to be better and to do better based on being learners, that’s the key. A coach of mine was so influential. I was thinking about the people who have coached me in my life or the people that I would even call mentors in my life. I’ve been blessed to have a number of them. I probably can put them on one hand, but that’s a lot to have five people that you could think back on your life who have taken that interest in you and you were open at that stage and phase to receive that mentorship and wisdom from somebody.
A coach once said to me that when you know better, you can do better. What a great phrase. I’ve never forgotten it. This is an invitation to learn. That’s what it means. It’s not an invitation to always be right. It’s not an invitation to always succeed. It’s an invitation to learn. That brings up the question of how we learn. Often, we learn from failure. We learn from making mistakes. We learn from being human beings. We learn from falling down and picking ourselves up. This is how we learn.
As children, we know this. We don’t know how to tie our shoes. We have to learn. If we were judging a child for how they tie their shoes, they would never get it. You would think they were idiots or something. You’d be very impatient with them. Instead, we’re loving, kind, and nonjudgmental because we know that that child, after making enough mistakes and after tying their feet together or tying knots, will eventually learn with two rabbit ears first or whatever their process is, but they will learn how to tie their shoes. They’ll learn how to walk and eventually learn how to run, jump, and do a multitude of things.
As adults, we lose sight of that. We forget that that’s the process. We must learn, and we learn in odd ways. We do learn from success. I found in my own experience in life and in business certainly that I’ve learned a great deal more and the lessons have been more poignant when they’ve been the result of things that didn’t go well or didn’t go right, and some even extreme examples of that kind of thing that we might call failure.
Struggle is optional. That’s another thing that someone once shared with me, which is truly amazing. To me, that means struggle is something that is the result of, in this instance, our failure to learn. When we do learn, we will eventually get things done differently and we will figure stuff out. That’s how businesses pivot and succeed. That’s how we as individuals or as people pivot and succeed. If we’re not willing to engage in that process, to have humility, then it gums up the whole thing. It slows down the process and we suffer needlessly.
I enjoyed the conversation with Meredith. I hope it was valuable to you. If it was, please share it with a friend, a colleague, or a family member who might benefit from reading about things like this. We’d love it if you’d give us your highest rating on the platform that you consume this show, whatever that might be.
When you do that and we get a five-star rating, it impacts how that platform shares this information with other people who might also get value from it. That’s helpful to us. Thank you for doing that. It helps this community grow. If the content is something that you’re finding valuable, it would be lovely if somehow through algorithmic magic other people are able to discover it as well. Thank you so much for taking the time to do that.
If you’ve not discovered for yourself how resilient you are at this moment, a great snapshot of what that looks like can be had by going to RankMyResilience.com. 16 questions in less than 3 minutes is all it takes. You’ll get your own personalized, confidential report of how resilient you are. Feel free to use this with your teams as well.
Feel free to reach out to us if you would love to get more insight on what that data means. We typically aggregate data for organizations, teams, and associations as well all the time as part of either my having keynoted one of their conferences or sometimes doing workshops for them, or even in discussing what our consulting services from WorkWell look like. We are very committed to creating healthier workplaces. Transforming the world of work is something that we are very much getting up every morning and feeling inspired to help do so. Thank you for your participation and for being a part of this. Thank you for being in this community. We appreciate you so much. Ciao for now.
Important Links
- Grow Strong Leaders
- Grow Strong Leaders Podcast
- Connect with Your Team: Mastering the Top 10 Communication Skills
- Change Proof
- Adam Markel’s Resilience Assessment
- Peer Coaching Made Simple
- The Very Best of Steve Chandler
- The 4 Disciplines of Execution
- Stolen Focus
About Meredith Bell
Meredith Bell is the co-founder and president of Grow Strong Leaders. Her company publishes software tools and books that help people build strong relationships at work and at home. Meredith is the author of three books and the host of the Grow Strong Leaders Podcast.
