The Art Of Staying Grounded with Sam Liebowitz

Staying grounded is the key to empathy, one of the secrets of successful leadership. Sam Liebowitz, known as The Conscious Consultant, taps into universal consciousness as he shares the value of choosing the grounded approach when dealing with life’s curveballs and whatnots. A mentor, coach, speaker, healer, and serial entrepreneur, he touches on the essence of looking at things through the heart, mind, body, and spirit. As we dive deeper on career paths and purpose, discover Sam’s take on the Jumping Ship approach, productivity, and self-care.

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The Art Of Staying Grounded with Sam Liebowitz

I’m happy that you’re a part of this community. If this is your first episode, what I’m about to say won’t make any sense but if you are in fact reading these on a more regular basis, then you know it means a lot to me to begin with context to start by creating space. I was going to set a context. It’s about creating a space for something to happen. What I love about this show is the opportunity to share other people’s pivot stories and my own as they come out and ongoing because we’re all pivoting. I was sharing with my guest the fact that a dear buddy of mine, old friend, is in the middle of a career pivot and unexpectedly as well. These are things that are happening on a regular basis in all of our lives. We share that in common.

I love to begin with gratitude. I will start by saying how grateful I am to be a part of this community, to be a voice in this community and to have you all be part of the community as well. I know a number of you individually. I know people that are reading to this on the beach, on the mountains or sitting in their car reading some of these stories of other people and the wisdom of some of our incredible guests. I want to say thank you for being part of this. Thanks for supporting it. Thank you for supporting me personally in all of this and for supporting yourself.

With that gratitude, I want to introduce an amazing man and a gentleman you’re going to both enjoy and learn a great deal from. I’m looking forward to this conversation as much as you might be. His name is Sam Liebowitz. He is known as The Conscious Consultant. What a perfect guest on the show to have The Conscious Consultant join us. As a mentor, coach, speaker, healer, and serial entrepreneur, he has impacted many people’s lives over the last many years. He’s been in business for himself since 1993 and has owned several successful businesses, including an IT consulting firm, a video publishing business and an internet business for aerospace engineers and managers. Talk about a diverse range of experiences. He’s probably got more pivot stories than the average Joe or the average Sam. Sam has inspired people to live a life that is happier, healthier and more fulfilled. That’s where in many ways are our hearts collide. Sam, welcome to the show.

Thank you so much, Adam. I appreciate you having me on your show. I’m not quite used to the tables being turned since I do my own show. I’m used to interviewing other people. I’m still getting used to being interviewed myself.

Thank you for that. It’s a different paradigm to be on the other side of the questions. One thing the community here is pretty used to is that this is a dialogue, this will be a conversation. I don’t even have any set questions that I absolutely have to ask you. They’ll be the things that flow back and forth between us. I’d love to start by saying, first of all, you’ve been in business for a long time. You’ve got a diverse experience. It’s fair to say that. What’s something that’s not written in that bio and that introduction that you would love for people to know about you?

I’m like everybody else. I started off with a career in IT working at banks and financial institutions. I’ve worked 9 to 5 for several years. It took a little while, but eventually, I realized, “This is not the life for me.” I don’t think that it was necessarily anything special about me. I don’t think that I’m a great entrepreneur per se but I followed what felt right to me. I paid attention to life. I listened to when opportunities came my way and that’s the direction that I moved. That’s why I’ve had such a diverse life. I don’t think anything special per se, but I say yes to life a lot.

There’s a lot of depth that’s embedded in that. The idea that you are following something. I don’t want to use words for you. How would you describe what it was you were following when you made these changes to your career path?

I like to joke around and say the universe is going to have its way with you whether you want it to or not. When I look back on my life, there have been some difficult times, trying times, some amazing and wonderful times. I could not in my wildest imagination ever imagined my life as it is and doing what I’m doing now. I don’t want to use the term God because it’s such a charged term. I do look at things this way. If we as individual beings have souls or spirits, which more and more evidence is pointing that way. If we have spirits, why doesn’t the planet have a spirit? Why doesn’t the solar system in the universe has a spiritual side to it or an energetic side to it? I feel like there’s much more than what we perceive with our physical senses and to me, it seems natural that there is some collective consciousness to it.

When you were making these decisions, were you tapping in more intentionally attempting to tap into some universal consciousness or to some wisdom outside of your own physical senses?

Sometimes yes, many times, no. A lot of the times, I just followed what felt right to me. When it felt like, “I’ve got to get out of here. This is not the place for me.” I got out of there. Even to what I’m doing now, it literally all grew out of meeting a guy at a party. People ask me all the time, “Sam, how’d you get started with the podcast network and this wellness center you’re running?” I’m like, “I met a guy at a party. It was that simple.” Meeting him, learning that I knew about him, talking and ending up, I thought I was going to help him sell his business instead I ended up buying it. It flowed naturally. I was tapping into some deeper intelligence but I wasn’t tapping into it necessarily. Subconsciously, I was tapping into it because I was trusting, and I was showing up and saying yes because yes felt right.

I don’t know if you’re humble or not but to me, it feels like there’s a deeper meaning or a deeper understanding that’s embedded in the way you expressed that, so just trusting. We could teach a very high-level college or post-grad program on just trusting. Spend your whole life learning how to trust. That’s a spiritual path all by itself.

It isn’t always easy and the way I frame things is also formed by my experiences in the work that I’ve been doing on myself, from my studies and practices over the years. How I describe things now is not necessarily how I would have described things several years ago. As I look back and as I gain a broader perspective of my life, that’s how it seems right to frame it is I trusted. Even when I didn’t know what I was doing, I trusted. One foot in front of the other, what’s the next step? I wasn’t one of those guys who had a ten-year plan. I had to be making X amount of money. I’m going to be doing this business. I had certain dreams and desires. I was a child of the ’70s, Star Trek and Star Wars. I loved the idea of space exploration, science fiction, and stuff. I always knew that it was a dream of mine to do that. The truth is I never thought I would be able to bring that into reality because I always thought I would be an astronaut.

Staying Grounded: There’s much more than what we perceived with our physical senses.

That was the thing you naturally thought of. I’ve had glasses since I was in third grade. When I was in high school, I learned that all the astronauts basically come through the Air Force, which I wasn’t into going into the military. They all had to have 20/20 vision back then. I was like, “That’s it. There’s nothing for me.” Although I had the dream, I didn’t see there was a possibility for it until years and years later this opportunity to start a business with a friend to do something in the days of Web 1.0 to provide a service within the aerospace industry. I’m like, “This is fulfilling my dream,” even though I’m not necessarily the one on the spaceship going out into space. I’m still contributing. I can still do something. Even that came about unintentionally because there was the intention behind it, but it wasn’t something I thought I would ever be able to do several years before.

Is there a common denominator or a thread that you can create between all these different diverse experiences of having been in more of formal business and a job working for someone else? Ultimately, being a consultant and working in the aerospace industry and owning your own business. Is there a thread that you see between those decisions along the way other than what you’ve said? You’ve said that you said yes and it’s a very powerful word. We all know that. How often it is that people are saying no to things because the timing isn’t right or they feel like that maybe there is not a future in it. That somehow there’s too much uncertainty. They don’t see a way to earn money doing it or any of the other numbers of things that stop people from saying yes to something that might feel good, or they might be intrigued by or interested in, or even passionate about?

The first thing is I never did anything I didn’t like. Even as a job, my initial job was working with technology. I like the technology. I liked computers in the early days. I always had that love of future stuff, of science fiction, of what’s the future going to be like in technology was developing rapidly. I always did things that I liked. First, I thought I would be a programmer. The truth is I liked working with people too much. I was doing things like technical training or quality assurance and interfacing between the programmers and the users. I was still working with people, but like every job I had, either the work I was doing I liked or the environment I was in I liked. If neither of those was true, I was out of there.

I get bored easily. I pretty much early on changed jobs about every few years or so except for one time I was working at one bank. I was only there for several months. It was the shortest time I’d ever been at anything for before or after. It was because I came in one way working for one person doing one thing and it was okay. I got reorg under somebody else who I did not trust, I did not feel safe or supported by, and everything shifted around me. I was like, “This does not feel good. I’m not in a good environment. I am out of here.” I started looking for another job a few months later. In several months I was out of there because it didn’t feel right to me.

To be un-humble for a minute, I’m a competent person. I can learn things. I can do things. I can pick things up and I have a lot of interests. It was never that difficult for me to find something to do that I liked because I do have a wide variety of interests. The thread that I see developing over my life was first with technology then interfacing with people, managing technology, working with people. I became a computer consultant. It made sense. It was an opportunity that I had with someone that I knew. I was a member of the local chapter of the National Space Society, which was a grassroots volunteer organization that’s very pro-space.

At the time, I was working at a nonprofit as a systems manager, I felt like I wanted to go out and be a consultant, but I knew nothing about it. I was talking to somebody in the organization, they say, “John, who does our newsletter, he’s a computer consultant, why don’t you talk to him?” I talked to him. He said, “Come into the office, we’ll do it.” I went in and he said, “I don’t have enough work for you to do full-time. If you want to work part-time, come work part-time. When a big enough project comes along, you can switch to full-time.” I was like, “Great.” Do you know how long it took for a big enough project to come along? It would take over a year. Over a year, I was working with him one or two evenings during the week, maybe a day on the weekend for one year. Still working a full-time job and coming to work with them until something came along big enough that I could say, “This is enough money. I can do this. I can quit my job.” After that, we were together. We did my first company together with him. We went through a couple of phases. Years later, he said to me, “I had so many people come to me saying they wanted to learn to be a consultant and work with me, and they would show up for a month. They would disappear and I’d never heard from them. You were the only one who stuck around long enough to turn it into a reality.”

It is going to sound funny now that I’m putting in this framework, but it’s the process that the book Pivot’s written around. The foundational process is one where you create a Plan B or create a second bridge before dismantling the first one. It’s the opposite of what is sometimes taught that if you’re not passionate about what you’re doing or if you want to do something differently, get into some new area that you’ve got to jump ship and quit what you’re doing.

That’s a very ungrounded approach. You’ve got to pay the bills. You’ve got to be in the position where you know you can support yourself because the other thing too is you start something new, you don’t know how it’s going to go. You may need enough reserves to last you a few months or a year to be able to do it. That was one of the early lessons I learned as a consultant is you save money when times are good because times aren’t always going to be good. You go through cycles. When you’re going through cycles, you don’t want to live high on the hog because things are going well. There are times when things are not going to be going well. You want to be balanced and live appropriately as you build. As you build up, the lows are not as low and the highest get higher, you see, you observe. I believe in taking a grounded approach to the things because sometimes I see people and they’re too ungrounded. When you’re not that grounded, you can jump ship and you may jump real high. You can fall real far and flat on your face.

Which is what keeps people from doing it at all, the jumps ship approach is the best one out there. If you’ve got few responsibilities in life and it’s early on, you don’t like what you’re doing, you should stop it almost immediately if it’s not something that you think the longer-term you can gain skills, gain knowledge, gain experience. There are a lot of reasons to do things outside of a paycheck and even outside of personal enjoyment at the moment. Maybe a challenge that embedded in, I don’t know that it’s a part of the Millennial makeup because we have Millennial-aged kids and I haven’t seen that be a part of that. It’s how older generations called, whether it’s Baby Boomers, Gen X or something, are looking at Millennials as not wanting to do anything for any length of time that they don’t like. That’s too extreme. More true to the point is that Millennials don’t want to do things that don’t have a purpose. They’re very much grounded and rooted in the why and in having a deeper purpose behind a career or other decisions or trading their time for money or for advancement in some way. I think that’s a very ethical approach to how it is that you live and especially how you develop a career.

I also have had the experience that learning something is sometimes not easy. Learning curves take time. Establishing not just the knowledge base, but also it’s not always easy to know whether you’re going to enjoy something early on. If you ever started to learn to play the piano or play the guitar, which is something that I’ve dabbled in. I wish I could say it was more than dabbling. There are things that you want to do in your life. At the start, you do them. They’re frustrating. They’re not easy. I’ll speak for myself when I’m not good at something, it’s not a lot of fun. I don’t enjoy sucking at anything. In our company now, we work with public speakers. We work with people that want to do TEDx Talks, who want to develop a speaker platform or want to get paid to speak around the world, develop their own ideas, be perceived or have some brand that is based in thought leadership and that’s not easy.

At the beginning of anything, like playing the piano or violin or a guitar, you suck at it. I can see where that story that you shared with us, that gentleman who sounded like he was a bit of a mentor and later a business partner of yours, nine times out of ten, people won’t go that extra mile. They’ll quit in a month and aren’t willing to dare to suck or can’t deal with sucking for some period of time at something or not getting a result. Longer-term, there are sometimes these great fruits that come out of that willingness to stick to something and certainly have the tenacity to do it. Consulting is one of those things. Why would you assume that at the very beginning? You’d get a gig that was sufficient. I suppose it’s providence or luck.

It can happen but not too likely. It more has to do with the very short-term nature that we tend to think about here in the West. In the East, they tend to think much more long-term. Here we are thinking about the next quarter. We’re thinking about next month. We’re not thinking about necessarily several years and what’s the foundation that we were building. However, I will say that the time for you to go if things don’t feel right, even if you’re not sick, when I hear somebody tell me, “I got fired from my job or I got laid off.” I always say, “Congratulations,” because to me that’s the universe telling you, “You’re not supposed to be there anymore. Go do something else.” I always look at that as you’d been released.

The Diamond Cutter: The Buddha on Managing Your Business and Your Life

You’ve been given a reprieve. It doesn’t feel like that. I don’t know if you’ve been fired. I’ve been fired. My wife’s been fired. A friend of mine got the boot. It never feels good for the universe for a door to close when potentially the writing Who Moved My Cheese? book is like the writing was on the wall. There were signs long before that maybe the situation was nearing the end of its useful life. Everything has a time, a season.

The other thing too is sometimes you’ve got to be willing to do the things that you don’t quite feel like doing to get you through until that thing that lights you up comes along until you find that thing is your thing. I’ve been doing different businesses since 1993. It’s not until I came, got this wellness center and doing this podcast session that I’ve been doing this now for a few years. That’s the longest I’ve stuck to anything my entire life. Now, I finally know, “This is it for me.”

Is that because you can’t fire yourself?

The universe fires you. I like to say all my businesses except for one, there was one business that I consider unsuccessful. All my businesses were successful, it does not mean I made a lot of money. I had a successful exit from each business. Sometimes those exits happened not completely of our own accord. I like to say sometimes the universe fires us even if it is our own business. I’ve come to see things. I use a different filter. I’ve been studying the shamanic work for the last few years and I look at things through heart, mind, body, and spirit. Those four archetypal element aspects: earth, air, fire, and water. The symbolism of that and how that shows up in our lives.

The body is earth, which is grounded, which means we need to be grounded in it. Mind, which is fire. In our society, we mind up on a pedestal. We think it’s the greatest thing. We do mental gymnastics like crazy but we forget that like what feels good. It’s all about heart. If the feeling isn’t there, then we’re not going to do our best work. It’s our spirit that inspires us. That’s the air in it. Over the last few years, I’ve been able to use this framework to look at life, what I’ve done, what I’m doing and what people are doing. Be able to look at things and say, “Maybe someone stuck because they’re too much body or too much earth there or maybe somebody is too ungrounded because they’re all in mind or spirit. There’s no grounding.”

Maybe they’re not building community. There’s a problem in the heart. They need to connect with people more. By looking at these different ways, I can look at life and what’s brought me along. I can see different aspects of life. Those different aspects were being developed or maybe I was working on one or the other at a particular time. Now I’m able to look at it and say, “Let’s do this more holistically. Let’s recognize all of these different facets and work on them together.” That’s why it’s like, “It’s great to be inspired, be passionate and have this amazing dream, but we still need to be grounded when we pursue it.”

I’m nodding inside and even outside because the body of work that we’ve spent has been in the area of developing resilience. We work in the corporate space. We do some coaching of some folks that are in the upper levels of management as well as do keynote talks to groups of people who are exhausted. There is almost nobody that will not nod in the affirmation that we’re constantly doing more with less. We’re constantly being asked to do more with less. People are exhausted. They’re busy. They’re exhausted, etc. and to me, I don’t know that we do anything about the outer piece of that. Meaning the world is fast and it’s getting faster. The disruption, the pace, the change isn’t going to change.

I love what Ram Dass says, “We’ve got to make friends with change.” We’ve got to make best friends with change for sure. There’s also this other piece of it, which is what you’re talking about, the holistic approach to how it is that we are able to thrive in an environment that is the way we’re feeling it. How do you do that? For me, I’m not saying it’s the answer, but it’s the answer that we’ve been researching and speaking about. It’s developing resilience. That’s holistic, mental, emotional, spiritual and physical resilience and it’s not the physical piece of it. Endurance, being able to go the distance, go long hours, be the night owl and all that. That makes sense. I know from my lawyer days that being a workaholic is not an answer. Eighteen-hour days is not the answer. If you’re not taking care of your spirit, if you’re not taking care of your heart, if you’re not doing something to establish strong rituals for recovery, there’s a good chance you’re going to end up on the burnout heap. That heap is a big pile.

I want to say something a little controversial right here. I’m going to say that this whole idea of productivity, it’s good for society. It’s not good for the individual. We’re way too focused on being more productive. We’re so focused on an unbalanced way that it decreases productivity and that sometimes going slow is going fast. Our body, our nervous system, you go fast, you get trauma like that. When you go slow when you ease into things, it’s so much better. This was pointed out to me in a strong way. When I read the book, I don’t know if you’ve ever read it, I highly recommend it, The Diamond Cutter by Geshe Michael Roach. In it, he talks about these Buddhist principles that he integrated into this business that ended up being this $250 million business that Buffett bought.

One of the principles we talked about was taking a day off in the middle of the week. It would be a day off where you don’t answer your phone. You don’t do anything work-related. To go off, take a walk in the woods, play, meditate and do whatever to get fresh so that when you come back on Thursday morning, you’re fresh. You can see things from a different perspective. You can be much more creative and much more productive by taking that day off, which means working four days a week instead of five days a week. It stuck with me ever since I read that in the book that we were so focused on the go, go, go, do, do, do and we don’t understand that you cannot avoid the burnout when you’re like that. There may be specific times when it’s necessary. You have a deadline you have to meet. You’re rushing to get something out the door but it’s the environment. We need to change the environment around this increased productivity, being the God of everything and look at what’s truly sustainable and what’s going to support. How are we going to live in an environment that’s going to help us to be the most creative, the most productive, not in the short-term, but in the long-term?

Productivity in many ways is a euphemism for we drive our people hard or we drive ourselves hard. That’s it. How long can you drive anything hard, your car, anything before it breaks down? We see a lot of breakdown in our society, in many things. On all levels, we see that breakdown.

I get it if you’re the CEO of a huge company, everything is the bottom line and profits, then you need to get the most out of every single employee.

Staying Grounded: Have clear boundaries with yourself so that you can then have clear boundaries with other people.

This is what’s controversial, at least we feel like there’s a space for us to communicate something and deliver a message that’s helpful in that space. That it’s not the most productive to drive that way. The research is counter to that. In fact, the cost of exhaustion, the thing we’ve been looking at is in the $60 billion a year range just in terms of health. Those companies you’re describing the most successful companies and midsize ones as well, costing them so much money because people are not at their best, not physically at their best, not mentally at their best, not in other ways as well.

There’s a great Harvard Business Review article some years ago that was written about the corporate athlete and comparing actual athletes, professionals as well as the Olympians to us, the business athletes, the enterprise athletes. They found that there was something strikingly similar about those two groups. Meaning the people who succeeded in each of those categories were the ones that had rituals for recovery. They were able to bounce back because they were resilient. They were able to bounce back because they took care of themselves. It was this idea that you’ve got, and they didn’t use this terminology, but I want to riff on what you said. You’ve got to slow down. Sometimes you’ve got to slow down to speed up. Similar to that when you were a kid and used to use a rubber band and you pull a rubber band back and then point it something, at a person, usually. We were foolish to do this but you aim it. The reason you could aim it was because you pulled it back slowly, took aim and let it go.

It’s that pulling it back slowly that enabled it to speed up, have momentum and hit something. It’s very much the case for us. We’ve got to be able to slow down. Maybe there’s something between the famous four-hour workweek, which I still don’t know anybody that’s developed the four-hour workweek. There’s something between the four-hour workweek and what we’re doing now, which is a boundary-less workweek. There is no weekend. The week doesn’t end when people are checking their emails and are engaged in work even on Saturday and Sunday. I go back to when I was a kid, my dad and my mom who didn’t have a lot of money but understood some things about self-care that were taking Friday off. That was their day.

It was to go to the bank, go to the dry cleaner or go to the health food store. This thing they called the health food store back then, go to the chiropractor or the gym. They took care of themselves. Even to this day, my brother who’s a partner at a big law firm in the city of Manhattan, Friday is the day he works from home. Friday for me has always been a day for self-care. I do some work for sure. I do things on that day. It feels different. Maybe one of those things that people from this podcast can take away is how is it that you’re going to take some part of the week and make it yours alone, something that you devote to self-care so you can recover.

It was interesting hearing you talk about self-care which is now such an important part of the conversation, which nobody was talking about several years ago and boundaries. This is something that I’ve been looking at much more nowadays. What I’m developing now, what I’m working on now is having clear boundaries with myself so that I can then have clear boundaries with other people. As an example, this is like what you were saying, I have a boundary around my weekends. If somebody sends me an email on Friday, if it’s not super urgent that I have to get back to them right away, they’re not going to hear from me until Monday. I may look at my phone, I may check my email, but I am not responding to anybody on Saturday or Sunday. My weekends are mine.

During the week, I don’t necessarily make it stratified or structured. I always try and find the time. When I feel tired, when I need a break, I take a break. If I need to not think about what I’m doing, take a break, play game of solitaire, watch a video or something, I will take that break, whatever I need at the moment for however long I feel I need it and then I come back. I am trying to pay attention to how I feel and not push myself unnecessarily, which doesn’t mean I never pushed myself, but I don’t push myself unconsciously or without a specific reason or cause.

I’m so happy that we ended up in that place. I even wrote down #TakeBackMyWeekend. It might be something that we pay forward, but I loved how you said that in essence, the ritual you’ve created is a boundary ritual. It’s a boundary for yourself because if you don’t create and maintain boundaries for yourself, how are you supposed to create them and maintain them with other people? The answer is you can’t because as within, so without in so many other areas. The last thing I want to drop in. I feel for time reasons, I can’t explore it further, but there’s a great documentary that came out about Bill Murray. This whole idea that Bill Murray, who I have loved, about everybody I think loves Bill Murray when he was on Second City TV and that’s long ago in Chicago, his days on SNL and his incredible movies for me starting with Meatballs, Caddyshack, Stripes, Groundhog Day and many others. Bill Murray started showing up in places. This is a little urban legend about him appearing in places randomly, in people’s homes, at their parties, at their weddings. All these kinds of Bill Murray sightings and his antics in these moments.

I believe it’s on Netflix and you can search it, you’ll find it easily. This documentary about Bill Murray that he didn’t have any involvement in. He’s not the one behind the documentary. He’s not in the documentary. It’s all about him. He’s in it. I don’t want to give anything else away. It’s phenomenal in the area of how it is that we can become more present in every moment of our lives in a way that brings joy to the moments in our lives. Why I’m feeling called to share that? It’s because that’s a way that we are able to regenerate our spirits. We can regenerate our souls. When we stop enjoying life, we stop finding joy in little things, random things or unexpected things, whatever those things are, we start to deteriorate. We start to atrophy. We begin to shrink. I love the conversation that we had, Sam. I want to thank you for being a guest on the show.

Thank you so much, Adam. I appreciate it. I enjoyed it as well. I look forward to having you on my show in the future. I appreciate you taking the time.

Thank you. If you go to AdamMarkel.com/Podcast, you can leave a review, a comment or something that we can respond to.

I love this time with you. I feel blessed that we got to be here together as we are virtually. My request, my hope, my prayer is that we get to do it again. We get to wake up again. My call to action is that everybody wakes up again. Please do that. We all agree to that. We’ll do that. If you’re inclined to go one step further, it takes ten seconds. Take ten seconds at the start of your day to feel gratitude and appreciation for yourself, for the universe, for all the other beautiful beings that you’re sharing this planet with at this time. At that moment, if you’re even that much more motivated to say something, to declare something that is an affirmation of your love for yourself and for the universe as a whole, and say these words, “I love my life. I love my life. I love my life.” We’ll see you soon. Thanks, Sam.

Important Links:

• Conscious Consultant
• Who Moved My Cheese?
• The Diamond Cutter
• Karmic Management
• Start My PIVOT Community on Facebook
• StartMyPIVOT.com
• www.ConsciousConsultant.com
• www.TalkRadio.nyc/shows/the-conscious-consultant-hour/

About Sam Liebowitz