The Secret To Effective Communication With Ken Bogard

Ken Bogard is the founder of Know Honesty and author of the book of the same name. In this conversation with Adam Markel, he delves into his mission to help people create genuine connections and live the lives they truly want through effective communication. Ken explains why communication requires openness, honesty, and active listening, all while considering the interests and feelings of the person on the other end. He also discusses how to manage your ego to make it less about building walls for yourself, but more about creating meaningful connections amid today’s world of individualism.

Show Notes:

02:07 – Ken Bogard Of Know Honesty
04:45 – Being Comfortable With Discomfort
09:13 – Writing ‘Know Honesty’
13:39 – How To Achieve Effective Communication
19:44 – Letting Go Of Your Ego
26:05 – Pursuit of Honesty Assessment
36:40 – The Tool Called The Agreement
40:37 – Ken’s Rituals Of Resilience
43:27 – Episode Wrap-Up And Takeaways

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The Secret To Effective Communication With Ken Bogard

It is a blessing to be here with all of you. I hope you find this show enlightening. I’m going to use that word in particular because the guests that I’ve got is going to provide a level of heightened opportunity for enlightenment and that’s a big task or a big ask, let’s say but you’ll decide. You make the decision. Let me read his bio. I’m going to jump right in. You’re going to love this guy. His name is Ken Bogard. He’s the Founder of Know Honesty, an organization that’s committed to improving professional lives by addressing their core needs with extensive experience and entrepreneurial spirit.

He empowers individuals and fosters collaboration positively impacting more than 300 business owners and thousands of employees across 60 organizations. His dedication to honesty and clarity has sparked a transformative movement in business management and leadership development. Again, you’re going to love this conversation. I know we’re going to get so much out of it together. Please, welcome, Ken Bogard.

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Ken Bogard Of Know Honesty

Ken, first of all, I love what we were talking about before we even hit the record button. I know our conversation is going to be epic and very interesting. I’m curious and I’m excited at the same time. At the same time as that, I’ve shared with our audience a lot about you, your history and what you’ve been doing in the world and all that thing. My question out of the gate is what’s something that’s not part of that history or at least not part of the written history that your people gave to my people that I’ve shared now with other people? What’s one thing that’s not part of your CV that you would love for people to know about you at the outset of our conversation?

I’m happy to share. It’s a good one. It’s a huge piece of my life. I was raised solo by my father and he is a stoic German-Lutheran, retired engineer, and ex-military. That’s who raised me. No mom in the picture. It’s just him and I and here I am years later coming out with a communication book. They don’t tend to add up. That came from that and it did. It’s an interesting story. I love my father and he loves me and still does to this day. He loves me in a whole different way than people view love from say parents that take care of you.

What that’s done for me in a mindset that’s given to me is looking at what he’s done with his life even though he’s raised me. I don’t want to follow those footsteps. I went to my own tune and a different direction. The mindset that I have had for all these years somehow, someway is get comfortable being uncomfortable. A lot of what my father sought out was as much comfort, safety, and risk adverseness as possible. Somehow born out of all this is the opposite figure that he raised up.

It’s reminiscent to me. I read a book called Shoe Dog. Have you ever heard that the title? It’s the Founder of Nike and I’m drawing a blank. Somebody out in the audience, I wish you could just like call it out for me. Tell me. It’s like I got a producer here that should be whispering in my ear if I had one of those little ear pieces.

I’m going to do the thing because there’s no reason why not to. I want to shout out to the proper person and get it right. It’s the Nike Founder and it’s by Phil Knight. Phil Knight writes this book about this very amazing company that’s been around a long time that wasn’t called Nike for the first almost decade of his existence, funny enough. It was like Blue Ribbon Enterprise or something like that. It’s a book I highly recommend to people to read, but there’s something in there is reminiscent about his father and his upbringing.

Being Comfortable With Discomfort

He had both mother and father growing up but very similar to what you just described. I like to just get a sense too of the comfort and not discomfort thing. I can understand and generationally, maybe his dad probably, even one generation before your dad is my guess because Phil Knight is in his 70s probably at this point. That idea that we should be comfortable. In fact, the American dream, in many respects is a dream around comfort.

People came from other countries. I know my ancestors and your ancestors did and they came out of tremendous discomfort. In so many respects, they came here seeking a better life and that better life equals comfort. Can you say anything around, looking at you, your dad and your philosophy, I’m sure you like Comfort. I’m sure you don’t wake up and go, “I want to have paint.” What’s the nuanced distinction between his way of living to attain comfort and the way that you approach it either as an entrepreneur or as a leader? What’s the difference in a mindset there?

I might wake up wanting pain. It’s a part of me. I don’t know what it is. He’s in his late 70s, and he was an engineer and mechanical minds. Not real social and kept to himself. He wanted his safe home not too big. He wanted to save income and put away the 5% per year that you’re supposed to retire and save. That’s what he wanted. There’s a book that comes to mind called Unscripted by MJ Demarco.

I read that book and I’m like, “I’m living a totally scripted life. I’m doing exactly the thing my father’s doing but that’s not what my heart wants.” My heart wants to explore, wants to see different things, communicate with different people and see all the challenges, the good, bad and ugly. I can’t tell you what in my childhood or early adult life led me to want something else. It’s just how I’m designed. I’m going to accept that design and I’m going to file what I want.

What I want and desire is to help people massively and to do it in a way that is this coming from a place of discomfort because when people seek comfort, the true condition isn’t coming out. Every person on this planet, for instance, I’m going somewhere heavy. We live on a planet full of eight billion people. Every single one of them has a different perspective than you and I. We’re all different. Totally different beings.

What we try to do, each one of us, is design a world for one. We try to create this one world and 7.999 billion people are wrong. Disagreeing with me is not okay. We build these walls and build a wall here and build a wall there and a level here and some depth to it so we can trap ourselves into the perfect little life that we want. It’s screwing us all up because everybody’s trying to do that. If you are trying to build a world for one, it’s impossible first of all but it’s an extremely lonely place. Why would we do that?

You just gave me the chills, Ken. I didn’t see this conversation involving the way it has. I don’t know if you feel the same way but I’m both curious about where this is headed but also grateful that we got to this little place right here. I want to sit with that. I hope people reading this, can sit with that idea of how the macro nations that we go through to build a world for one. It’s just shockingly true. I want to lean into your book in a second. Before we do that, I’m going to add one more book to the list of all the reading everybody’s got to go do now.

Writing ‘Know Honesty’

If you’re not familiar with the book The Untethered Soul, it’s been a while since I brought this up. It’s one of my favorite books of all time. It’s by Michael Singer, and does he have a lean into the thing that you’re talking about or you’re referencing but he doesn’t say it that way. Again, Socrates or Plato or somebody said, “All we’re doing is remembering anyways.” I don’t think there’s any original thoughts. We forget and we remember. I love the way you just phrased that. I want you to tell us more about your book. Does your book track this idea that you just brought up?

It does. I do want to put a check mark next to your Untethered Soul recommendation. I’m in the goosebumps. You’re getting the goosebumps I’m getting it’s because we understand what Michael Singer’s trying to get out to the world with that book. If anybody’s got control issues like crazy, please go read that book. It will set you free. Every executive should have that book next to their bed and get familiar with that. Our whole life is designed trying to control like how do I control you and what you’re going to say? I didn’t like what you say, so how do I control it more? We get neurotic about control and it’s screwing us up. It’s hurting relationships left and right.

It makes us value only ourselves and not everything that’s around us. It’s such a heavy topic but such an important one because this is our life with 7.999 billion people and souls floating around us. Our book does touch it. If you are familiar with Untethered Soul and you’re reading, it’s about extreme openness, surrendering to everyone. The piece we take away from that is certainly the openness. The openness is important. We define it this way in the book and it’s the most important piece of the book.

We define openness as listening without reservation. Putting your needs and wants on pause for somebody else. That’s openness. The title of the book is Know Honesty. It’s by design that it sounds like NO. The title has KNOW to know honesty. The whole premise of the book is that there’s two sides of communication and we’re missing it in a big way. I can’t wait to hear your perspective on it. Open and honest gets thrown around a lot in our country like, “Be open and honest with me.”

Openness is listening without reservation. It is about putting your needs and wants on pause for somebody else. Share on X

All we’re hearing is the word honest. Also, my book has honesty on it. Know Openness is not the title of my book. If it were, nobody would buy it. We’re drawn to and we’re excited for honesty. We’re drawn and excited to share our perspectives, wants, and desires, which is all very important but the missing piece of the equation is openness. How do we become both very open and very honest? If we can do those two things, we’re unstoppable when it comes to communication.

We have screwed up this gift of communication. I could tell you exactly how I feel and exactly what I want but I won’t. I could do that to my wife and for my kids. How many times we are giving off messed up signals to one another? We’re screwing up communication and I would argue a much faster pace than ever before. We just got to pull it back. This book to me is so important because what we’re trying to do with this is change how the world communicates.

That’s a massive undertaking, if you don’t mind me saying. I’m glad that you’re out there doing your part in that because communications at probably the lowest effective level, if there was some way to measure efficacy of communication, I would say this is the low point in my lifetime. I’m sure 500 or 600 years ago, maybe it was better. Maybe because you couldn’t communicate with a lot of people. You can only communicate with the person in your hut or in your village or whatever.

You knew you didn’t communicate well with the people that are in your hut or in your village. You’re potentially outside the herd and that was dangerous. I would imagine communication was pretty good back then but I wasn’t around so I don’t know. I would just say in my own lifetime, this is the worst level of effective communication that I’ve seen. I’m not a Communications major or written on the topic but I read a bunch of things.

How To Achieve Effective Communication

I remember a book called Dialogue. Again, another book. It’s amazing how many books we talked about already and the idea of just how fragmented we are and how much us and them. The concept of us and them is baked into our demeanor, our attitude, and our approached to things. The silos that we create in business and in outside of business. I want to toss it back to you because I want to know if that is true, if what I’m saying has any merit at all. What do we about it? What are you recommending for people that are working with other people in a business context or outside of that, however, it is you want to frame it? What are some things that we can do to make a change for the better because I feel like we’re on the wrong trajectory when it comes to effective communication.

If degrees matter still as much as they used to, given the work you do and the time spent on what you do. You would have fourteen different degrees on communication. You’re well educated on the topic, if I’m just giving my humble opinion. If I tie it back to what are we going to do about it? We first have to see the problem. The moment you had where you’re like, “7.99 billion people trying to design the world for themselves.” We have to start seeing that.

In every social post we do, where somebody aggressively disagrees with us and wants to fry us, even though they have not investigated us or understood where we’re coming from or how many people in my cabinet or in my team have talked about in researched and studied the topic. Yet, they’ll just want to fry you immediately and then disappear. Not to receive any conflict back. It’s just one example that we’re all familiar with, which wasn’t a thing many years ago, at least not to the degree it is now.

What’s been pedaled on us for the last 15 to 20 years, let me just give you some descriptive of what’s been pedaled on us. How important it is to be your authentic self has been pushed very hard and still is. Vulnerability, you need to be vulnerable. Power of Vulnerability by Brené Brown is brilliant. Identity, your identity. Who you are and what you are. All this is has been pushed on us and I’m not saying those are bad things. I’m just saying that’s half of the equation which is not being pedaled on us. It’s how important it is to be open to the perspectives and differences right around you.

How important it is to listen without reservation, to listen to a disagreement and seek to understand where that person came from, what shoes they walked in, and what heartaches they had in life. That’s not taught. It’s not pushed and not sexy. We’re constantly serving our ego and it’s making us lonely creatures. There’s a reason we’re the most lonely generation coming up. Anxious Generation by Jonathan Haidt is a brilliant book that presses upon this in many ways too.

Change Proof Podcast | Ken Bogard | Effective Communication

Effective Communication: Constantly serving our ego makes us lonely creatures.

Everything is getting pointed at this. What we have to do to combat this is we got to educate people. I don’t know how you were raised. I don’t know your full background but I do this in talks all the time. I say, “How many of you were taught the importance? Now that you know the definitions I give of honesty and openness, how many of you were in grade school and that was taught to you? That was important that your honest and open all the time. One out of 30 people raise their hand.

I said in high school, how many of you were taught that? No hands. How many of you in college? Maybe about 3 out of 30 people because they took a communications class or some class that helped to teach this or a philosophy class then I go, how many of you are taught this at your company, how important it is to be honest and open back and forth? No hands. Unless they’ve worked with us or somebody else that’s teaching something similar. I said let’s take a look at your onboarding, for instance. What do you teach in your onboarding? Here’s your process, how you collect your check, the people you need to know, and where the company came from.

Was anything in your onboarding about teaching you how to communicate effectively? No. Where is it? It’s totally missing from being educated to people. This is the problem we’re up again. In my humble way with this huge mission to change how the world communicates, we’ve put out a book, workshops, and way to measure people’s openness and honesty. We’re doing everything we can. We just put up a billboard that’s making a bit of a splash in our town. We’re doing everything we can to help people understand how important is to be honest and open in nearly everything you do.

I was thinking it and I put my own wants and needs aside for a second because I wanted to listen and learn. You also said something that I was thinking and I thought, “That’s interesting.” I don’t know when the bells ring in your head but the bells ring in my head when I sense when there’s this coherence that when the two fragments or the seemingly like there’s you and then there’s me and we’re separate.

In that moment, when I feel like we were one and that’s happened several times since we’ve gotten on this little show. I hope people aren’t going, “What?’ For real, we don’t know each other. We never spoke before. This is like new. You go, how do you communicate with somebody? How do you have a conversation with somebody you don’t and you never spoke to before? It’s the art form and we’re experienced at doing it and all that stuff. The truth is, you don’t have those moments where you feel one or that oneness when you come from those two different things but feel that coherence happen.

Letting Go Of Your Ego

That is special and I’m going to acknowledge it in this moment and be grateful for it. That’s what we can see and there’s a way to get there. It’s a miracle but it doesn’t have to be a miracle. It doesn’t have to be abnormal or unusual or outside the bell curve because that’s what I’m getting from you. It’s a way to create this and manifesting this and your communications with people, both your personal ones but in those ones that are so vitally important in the work you do in the world. I want to know more about that and I want to know more from you about this about the ego because that was the thing I was thinking when you were saying it.

This is almost like, we’ve created unwittingly in the guise of being in empowering our kids, because I grew up and I didn’t get a lot of this in my demographic. We didn’t hear a lot of that. “Be authentic,” Nobody ever said that to us. Create boundaries or set boundaries or do these things. I forget what’s one or two of the other things you mentioned but those didn’t ring true for me growing up and certainly don’t people say be open. Honesty is a thing. I’ve heard that, “Be honest. Tell the truth,” but the openness or open-heartedness or that thing.

As we became parents and we wanted more for our kids and consciousness is rising. That’s the good news across the board, folks. If you’re ever just got to be so half glass, half empty. Know that consciousness is expanding. We’re evolving. That’s good for the species. Hopefully, good for everybody reading this, too. In that expansion a consciousness, we’re trying to give people more freedom and more empowerment.

At some point, ironically in empowering people, now young people. People in their teens, 20s and 30s, and I’m past that. In empowering them, if it feels like there’s a lot of ego that was all so enabled and almost enhanced. The ego is tough to grapple with in all of us. Do you want to tell us a little bit more about it? If you’re going to help people to communicate better on some level, you’re also helping them to conquer their ego, control, and become more aware or self-aware of the place where their ego is the thing that’s driving the bus of a cliff.

I wish you could just keep going. I’ve enjoyed listening to you. This is great. I want you to push back. I’m not the eagle expert. I’ve not done a bunch of deep work on the ego. I understand it. I get the gist. We talked about it a little bit in the book. I’m not trying to turn ego off. You can’t turn it off. Ego goes everywhere. Ego is okay, but it’s just half of the equation and the other half is other people. That’s it. Let’s just make communication that. I’m not sure I defined honesty earlier but it’s being truly and freely yourself. Speaking into what you want and how you feel.

Ego goes everywhere, and it is just half of the equation. The other half is other people. Share on X

If you ask me, that’s the ego running rampant. Whatever the ego is thinking, it’s saying and it’s fine. If I’m working with a client, I want that. I want you as naked and raw as you can be. Let your freak flag fly. I don’t care what comes out of your mouth. I’m seeking to understand it. I want to judge you. I’m going to hold back reservation and I’m going to seek to understand where you’re coming from and what you’re saying. Go ahead and have your spot and let your ego run but when it’s my time, when it’s my turn, I ask that you do the same. Let mine run rampant. Be open and listen to me without reservation.

Let’s have this exchange back and forth. How much more understanding we’re going to have a one another? We might appreciate one another instead of trying to hold our ground already pre-populating thoughts on our head as the other one is talking. Let’s turn that off and be present for the other person and so because of this, I don’t put much emphasis on ego. Let it go. It’s your willing to agree that we’re going to communicate in this style. That you will be totally open to me when I’m speaking. When you’re speaking, I’m going to be totally open to you.

If we’re back and forth open and honest, it’s great. How much we’re going to accomplish is going to be great. How deep our relationship can go now? It’s deepening because I believe you have this gift. You can’t be a great podcaster without incredible skills and turning off all that judgment and reservation. You already have this and then coming back and hopefully, you are and I think you are, which is why your show is attractive. You’re honest right back.

People can totally sense when you’re fake. When you’re fake or skirting it and this ego or this truly and freely you is trying to come out but it won’t. People sense it and they’re not real comfortable with it. What we loved our characters and Greeks as they are, mostly. We need more education on this. We need way more practice on all this so that we can get along with eight billion egos floating around this world.

That’s interesting to me because you’re right. The ego is not going to go away. At the same time, I’m thinking. You invited me to push back and I’m thinking about that, too. I’m going to go back to the one of the first things you said, which I so want to repeat, is the idea that we’re building a world for one. That we live with 7.999 billion other people in the world but we’re building a world for one and how often that is the case?

I’m assigning a certain amount of blame or judgment around the ego because I know that for me, when my ego is getting its way and it’s the thing I’m listening to or it’s the thing that’s in charge and there’s no listening involved. It’s runs on that on default. My life is different. I don’t know notice it and catch it. Sometimes, it’s like I’m mixing up all these metaphors but it’s like the farm animals. The barn door is open and they’re running wild then I catch it.

The good news is that when it comes to your own ego, it’s easy to corral the animals back in and get them back in the barn, so to speak, when you become aware. That’s miraculous but the ego by itself running rampant is a me show. It’s all about I and I don’t think that’s what you’re saying, so please help me.

I think I am. I’m okay with a me show so long as you’re going to let it be my me show in a moment. That’s okay.

Does the ego allow that as I’m interrupting?

Pursuit of Honesty Assessment

It can. We have this assessment. We measure people’s honesty and openness. It’s called the Pursuit of Honesty Assessment. Take it. It’s for free and probably will be for another year or so. We’re just collecting this data on people. People across the board are more honest than they are open. That is consistent. We break down this study in two. You go take it and you’ll get results. I’ll show you how honest and open you are on your personal life and in your work life, which is so interesting because people have so many different dynamics in their life that change this.

They may go home and they’re way less honest and way more open. They go to work and they’re way more honest than they are open. It’s this interesting study that we’re doing still. It’s incredible, the data that’s coming from it. Honestly and openness go hand in hand when it comes to communication. Knowing that we have an imbalance of honesty over openness, we’re screwing up our communication.

If you multiply the percentage amount of time you’re honest and the percentage of time you’re open. You’re going to find the gap in between and how much communication is being exchanged between two people, real communication at least. For me, when people are leaning into their ego, it’s great. You talked about awareness. When you’re aware that your ego is running rampant, I do think in the book, we do give it a title. We call the Wall. Now it’s my turn to speak, my me show. We should trademark that me show. Something about that is cool.

I’m giving you the me show and you’re reading without reservation now. As soon as your mind starts drifting, you’re like, “I’m not sure I believe this guy. What’s his religion? Where did he come from? That’s messed up.” All of a sudden, you’re putting a wall up. You’re starting to create a divide between you and me now. You’re no longer in my head. You’re no longer interested in the shoes where I come. There’s going to be more of a divide and what we’re doing now in the time frame we’re living in.

That’s where the aperture of openness. That’s where you’re no longer being open. I want to put that parenthetical in there for folks.

Yes, you’re no longer open. You’re closing off so you can serve self. You’re not there for somebody else. I would tell you there’s this one story and I’m not sure it’s going to hit but for whatever reason, it hit for me. This guy works at a manufacturing plant and he’s stamping whatever he’s stamping and that’s his job 40-50 hours a week. The CEO comes down. It’s a big company. It’s got all the people around them that are taking notes and doing the thing. He walks up to this person who’s stamping all that stuff for 40-50 hours a week.

That worker stops and there’s the CEO. This a unique moment for both of them. The CEO walks up and he blocks everything to be totally present to the person who’s working on that line. He’s present for him and he says, “How’s it going?” The guy shares. He says, “It must be hard for you.” He’s present. He’s got all these other people trying to vie for his attention but he’s there for that worker. I picture that every time I’m in a conversation and how that worker must have felt. The most important person in the company is that worker in that moment with that CEO. It’s such a cool story and I’m like, “If we had that openness when somebody else is speaking.” Your relationships are so deep. Your trust can excel. That’s what we’re after.

Effective Communication: If we have openness when somebody else is speaking, our relationships deepen and our trust can excel.

The story for me, just completely changing the context because you and I are in organizations and work with other organizations. We’re always in the business context. I’ll change this one out for a second. I’m lucky enough my wife and I met college and married for 35 years. This like the greatest blessing I could even ever imagine for a lot of reasons. One of those reasons is we had some children. Those kids have grown up healthy, leaving our home, and leading good lives.

Now they have kids, very little ones. We have these three little ones. I get to spend time with all three of them, but this one in particular, the younger little one. She loves to involve me in her games, in the things that she’s doing. Honestly, when I’m with her, I am as you just described only present. Anybody that knows this from their own kids, their grandkids, from other people’s kids or from whatever like watching or seeing kids. You understand that kids don’t tolerate you not being present. They’ll just move on.

Immediately they know if you’re not with them. If you’re not there actually with them. She involves me in her world and I’m there participating in it in a way that I imagine, as you just said that, CEO suspended all the things going on in his or her world to just be there in the world of that person that they were in front of. That’s what I get regular practice at doing personally with these little ones that are around.

Again, you know immediately, if you divert your eyes or look at your phone or you think you’re fully them by checking the text message while you’re all so playing tea party. They don’t have to call ********. Their body language tells you that’s ********. It’s like, “Hello?” We have a lot of examples around us of what you’re talking about. I don’t I feel like this is so vitally important yet like so many great paradoxes in life. This is not difficult, is it?

It’s simple. Your story gives me chills because I got two little ones and I screw up presence with them all the time. I’m not leaning into my own openness, so to speak. When I do, it just feels empty and sad. It’s like I’m just shining my own child. I have a little moment for myself when they’re begging for you. They just want you in their life so bad. If anything, you’re going to inspire me to be very present with my kids when I get home.

Great example. It’s not difficult. The equation is open plus honest equals real communication. We just got to get a little bit better at recognizing awareness, your word, and love that when we’re not being truly and freely ourselves. If you’re not being honest, what are we being? We’re being fake. Fake. Who in this world raises their hands says, “I want to be fake as much as possible?” Nobody. What we’re talking about here is just lean in and be more truly and freely you. The challenge will be that there are people in your life that won’t accept that. There are people that do not subscribe to this equation.

I don’t blame them for it. I’m not upset with anybody in my life that doesn’t like who I truly and freely I am. I just know that they haven’t been educated on the subject or not enough or haven’t seen how it can hurt somebody to not allow somebody to have the freedom to be truly and freely who they are in that moment. I’m just like, “We got to educate people on it.” The other side of openness, when you’re not being open, you have a wall up of some sort.

Politics, religion, or sex. Think of all the heated topics you can taboo topics and go ahead and test your wall with somebody else. Test it. Instead of trying to win the conversation, seek to understand the other person’s perspective. Listen without reservation and push that wall down and see how much more you enjoy life because you’re not trying to control every little element, variable, and equation around you. You’re just present for somebody else. Some other soul trying to navigate this journey of life as well. When you do that and you minimize the need for this neurotic control all the time, you’re going to be such a happier person just like I will be when I’m totally present for my two kids.

Way cooler. We need to give ourselves grace as well and forgiveness, too. I’m falling off whatever that purchase that’s easy to say, what it looks like to be on a higher plane of consciousness or awareness. Yet falling off is part of it. I’m trying not to judge myself too harshly for falling off. Where I’m working personally is how to get back into that state more quickly and not have it be so long the length of time between those moments where I feel like I am showing up the way I want to show up.

When you working or when you’re creating a life, I’ll just go back to that point when I was a lawyer and my wife and I were at a college. We had 2-3 jobs and she was a teacher and another second to third job. I was a teacher too at a point and then went back to school. We’re just trying to make a life for ourselves. Having the time or the perception of time to be present is a challenge. I know people are reading are going, “This all sounds great except that I also have a boss breathing down my neck for KPIs to be met. Letting my freak flag fly and allowing another person to have their freak flag moment and all that. I don’t know where the time is for the for that to happen.”

I applaud people for thinking that like bringing that right to the surface because like in sales 101, you bet a handle the objections. Better you handle the objections than the person who’s having them is going to have those objections because you’re not going to make a sale. We need to handle the objections and raise them including the one that centers around time. I don’t know that we need to do that now. If you have some thoughts on, I’m open for us to do that too but I do think it’s something is worth getting wrapping your brain around because your work, the way you’re working, and in your wife isn’t. It’s understandable if you didn’t have the time the way I have, let’s say when my kids are raised and out of the house.

I made a difference. I’m literally in a different phase of life than you are. That’s okay to recognize that that’s a thing and yet what’s our view of time and how do we manage time more effectively to potentially give ourselves more of those moments? That’s something we could lean into because that’s also possible.

The Tool Called The Agreement

Sure. There’s a tool called the agreement or a practice. We call it the agreement, so I’ll share that with you. It’s going to sound very familiar. It’s one that you can apply everywhere in your life. Everywhere, all the time, as much as you want to and watch what it does for you. I’ll use the sales. The sales one’s good or an employee that isn’t meeting KPIs or whatever. I think about my own employees when it’s happening.

What I want for them to do is I want them if they are not meeting their KPIs, to be truly and freely themselves. I want them to be clear on what’s up, don’t like it, you don’t like that I’m giving you pressure, does that upset you, why does that upset you, and what’s not working with your KPIs. Let it rip. I’m totally going to hear you all. I promise you. I’m going to be open it. Here’s the deal. I’m going to be honest back at you and I said you’d be open to me.

I think because of this dialogue, we are going to navigate this particular issue very quickly. Work and personal life are very different to me. They’re modes. You’re only in performance mode at work. That’s just the mode I turn on like an athlete. LeBron James isn’t out there like somebody who’s sits on the couch, eating popcorn and chumming it up with his friends. The guys out there to perform, to achieve, and to produce. Work and personal life for a little bit different.

At work, I’m simply trying to get my employees and myself in the right mode. Why aren’t we producing? Why aren’t we achieving? They can say whatever they want to. I don’t care. They can cuss me out if they want to. I’d rather understand that than them having a thought in the back of their head that they’re already thinking, “That isn’t on the table for me to work with it all.”

Almost radical transparency, if you will or radical honesty or radical openness. All of it. The richness of the soul is so much better when they’re on us about whatever it is and I’m honest back at them and they’re totally open to it, which is hard to do. Here, this is what we do. This is what we train on all the time. If you could see us navigate issues, I’d like to think we’re modeling it pretty well.

Effective Communication: The richness of the soul is so much better when we are honest and open to everyone, even though it is hard to do.

I was just going to ask you if we surveyed your employees, would they say that you guys are 8 out of 10 or 9 out of 10 or 10 out of 10 in terms of eating your own cooking?

Its way up there. I know that. Go ahead. You can survey them.

We’ll have to do a part two of this episode. I’ll also say to our readers too, in terms of just getting links to the assessment that Ken mentioned earlier as well, there’s more information about the book and the organization and its work in the world. KnowHonesty.com is the website and there’s a lot of great valuable resources. I’ve been on that side. I’ve seen it. Very cool stuff. Everybody should take that assessment.

We use assessment tools as well and they’re effective. I just have a sense without knowing it for sure because I haven’t used your assessment. I just have a sense that it’s a similar philosophy around that whole assessment thing. There’s a lot of assessments that are being used that don’t get the job done. They’re too broad. They show the cards.

They are too predictable and the responses are often predictable as well, versus shorter things that are more pinpointed at getting people to be transparent, to use that word you said just a moment ago. In any event, I loved this conversation and I would love to have a part two of it, but also I would love to find out if there are any loose ends or hanging ends or open loops that you want to close as we close out the conversation at least for the moment?

I’m blessed to know you. Our connection and all this is just too improbable to be coincidence, so blessed to know. I’ll leave you at that. There’s so much more we could talk about and lean into. Let’s do it in the next one, but this is been great for me. I appreciate you.

Ken’s Rituals Of Resilience

Thank you, Ken. I want to ask you one more personal question, if I might. Do you got a couple more minutes for me?

Let’s go. Let’s squeeze it out.

Our focus is often on how we create resiliency and ultimately what either depletes a person’s reserves or resilience or adds to it because some of what you’re talking about, there’s no question that we’ve got a beautiful Venn diagram. When communication is good like the communication that you and I have been having, especially not knowing each other. To me, it adds to my tank I feel on an emotional level, a physical level, mental level, and spiritual level. In those zones of resiliency, I feel like I’ve been elevated.

Your presence has been an elevating experience for me and yet, we all know that in communications with people, often, it’s the opposite. I feel less or something’s been taken away. I feel like my energy is been sucked out. There’s those experiences. I want to just get your take on how you develop resiliency or if you’re thinking about that at all. If they’re rituals or things that you do that add to the tank and fill you with energy. Clearly good communication must be one of them.

It is. Openness, listening without reservation, and putting your needs and wants on pause for somebody else. That’s the definition. To me, it’s also an ability to absorb reality as it is. We have lost our ability to absorb reality and what we might choose to do is just shut it off. Turn it off. Walk away. Avoid it. Therefore, not building any resiliency at all. We need to lean into it and to tie it all the way back to the beginning, get comfortable and being uncomfortable more. You will build deep roots in the tree that is you if you do that.

Get comfortable with being uncomfortable more. You will build deep roots in the tree if you do that. Share on X

I just literally love that answer. With that, I will invite our community to leave a comment. You go to AdamMarkel.com/podcasts and leave a comment there. I want to express again gratitude for those of you that have taken the time because it does take time to go to the platform where you consume this show and give it a rating, 3 star or 4 star or 5 star. The stars matte. It helps the algorithm to help us. It helps us to grow our community. I would be remiss if I didn’t say thank you for doing that and also to employ you to do that for us, if you wouldn’t mind.

If you’ve got a friend, a family member, somebody or a colleague that would benefit from this conversation, please feel free to share the link to it and let somebody else enjoy just the wisdom they can share with us. Ken, you have been a blast. I’m glad to know you and I am looking forward to doing this again with you sometime soon. Thank you again.

Right back at you.

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Episode Wrap-Up And Takeaways

You tell me through your comments and responses just what you thought of this episode, whether it meets the standard the that I set at the very outset in the introduction, this standard of heightened awareness or heightened enlightenment even, the opportunity to seek enlightenment through the words and insights that Ken shared with us. I know that I feel elevated. I do. I said that to Ken in the episode toward the end that my energy, my presence, and my attention in the moment of being with him listening to his perspective and then vibing and having that conversation.

Not just listening but being in dialogue with him was just such a welcome and wonderful experience. Very positive. I hope you feel that or felt that as well and you’re willing to think about where it is that you could be in presence and communicate at a level of presence with another human being. Where can you be fully open and honest in your communication with someone and enjoy their presence and being in their company? Where at work is that possible among your colleagues?

Where at home or in your personal life, is that possible in and among the people you see all the time or that are part of your family or your network of friends? Where is that possible outside of TikTok or Instagram or any of the other social platforms that we communicate on so frequently? That’s a question. No answer here other than just a recommendation that you seek that out. I truly believe that when you seek, you find.

These are our reciprocal, the relationship between them but we have to seek in order to find. There’s that aspect of it as well. I hope I hope that you will take this as a call to action to do that. I have so enjoyed this time being in the seats for the show. I hope you’ve loved it as well. Again, we’d love to hear from you. For now, anyway, I will just say thank you and ciao for now.

Important Links

About Ken Bogard

Ken Bogard, founder of Know Honesty, is committed to improving professionals’ lives by addressing their core needs. With extensive experience and entrepreneurial spirit, he empowers individuals and fosters collaboration, positively impacting over 300 business owners and thousands of employees across more than 60 organizations. His dedication to honesty and clarity has sparked a transformative movement in business management and leadership development.